tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post8958752670200901626..comments2023-10-16T21:11:28.700+03:00Comments on Dodecad Ancestry Project: How to create Zombies from ADMIXTURE etc.Dienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-28048857209470466222011-05-31T12:47:50.783+03:002011-05-31T12:47:50.783+03:00"In short, the vast majority of Caucasoids ev..."In short, the vast majority of Caucasoids everywhere are descended from the fertile crescent, with limited absorption of Mesolithic populations."<br /><br />Fair comment. I should not have implied that we can time the "wave" so early as the <i>first</i> farmers. Still, I am happy to see that we are getting a better idea what your clusters might be caused by. Maybe then the Western Asian cluster could be thought of as Mesopotamian or Assyrian?<br /><br />Regards<br />AndrewAndrew Lancasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15050253327442799011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-8323165183811407082011-05-31T08:14:04.225+03:002011-05-31T08:14:04.225+03:00This is a neat project and fascinating research, b...This is a neat project and fascinating research, but I do have two concerns with Zombies: 1) films make them seem too slow to effectively eat people. 2) More seriously, what check is there to make sure that the K ancestral populations, from which the Zombies are created, are realistic? It just seems to me that although these Zombies fit with expectations, this concordance could simply be because the Zombies are derived from the dataset (that created the expectations) in the first place.Zachary Cofranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10845549257961708506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-14733425187057027302011-05-30T23:21:36.926+03:002011-05-30T23:21:36.926+03:00I think this is a genuine milestone breakthrough t...I think this is a genuine milestone breakthrough that we, perhaps, should name "the Dienekes paradigm"<br /><br />2 experiments would be well interesting<br />1/to find out wich one of the southeuropean, northeuropean, westasian and southwestasian components that corresponds to the northafrican one amongst northafricans(of course by playing with the 4 aforementionned zombies+northafrican samples)<br />2/to fimd out wich one of the southeuropean or westasian that fits the best with the northeuropean one(of course again with the 2 aforementionned zombies+northeuropean samples)larshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12330643093343000590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-6284834037565736132011-05-30T22:13:14.805+03:002011-05-30T22:13:14.805+03:00Is the "West Asian" component one we can...<i>Is the "West Asian" component one we can maybe think of as one connected to the original agricultural concentrations of the fertile crescent and particularly perhaps its northern curve?</i><br /><br />It is a signal from that area, but to link it to the fertile crescent would imply that the other components are primarily descended from elsewhere. That is not true, none of the West Eurasian components are differentiated substantially from each other to the extent that we could posit Paleolithic-level separations between them. In short, the vast majority of Caucasoids everywhere are descended from the fertile crescent, with limited absorption of Mesolithic populations.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-79517336026108862982011-05-30T14:01:42.744+03:002011-05-30T14:01:42.744+03:00Keep up the good work. Concerning the Kalash, beca...Keep up the good work. Concerning the Kalash, because you have here compared them to Palestinians and Druze, who seem to have a strong "Southwest Asian" (perhaps Arabian or in any pastoralist?) component, I was trying to remember whether the other component, the one which seems strong amongst the Kalash, is not also very common in the northern Fertile Crescent, amongst Assyrians, Armenians, Caucasians, etc. Is the "West Asian" component one we can maybe think of as one connected to the original agricultural concentrations of the fertile crescent and particularly perhaps its northern curve?Andrew Lancasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15050253327442799011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-91737213070262800062011-05-30T13:05:05.832+03:002011-05-30T13:05:05.832+03:00The regular method; see post for concordance betwe...The regular method; see post for concordance between the two methods.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-82084167193823931932011-05-30T12:31:20.645+03:002011-05-30T12:31:20.645+03:00Thanks, Dienekes. SW Asian there is apparently mod...Thanks, Dienekes. SW Asian there is apparently modal in Yemeni Jews.<br /><br />"<i>The Indian_D sample has 25.2% West Asian and 6% North European admixture</i>."<br /><br />Was this calculated using the Zombie method or is this just an average of the regular K=10 for the Indian participants?Vasishtahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16475698920004634252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-6216247370141710122011-05-30T11:49:51.709+03:002011-05-30T11:49:51.709+03:00In fact, all Indo-European groups, including Dravi...<i>In fact, all Indo-European groups, including Dravidian-speaking upper castes carried European and SW Asian at a ratio 3:2 in Zack's K=11.</i><br /><br />I don't follow that project very closely, but it's my impression is that "SW Asian" is modal in Arabs and Jews in HPA and hence completely inappropriate to detect "West Asian" admixture in South Asia.<br /><br />Indeed, that's the whole point of using Zombies: if you ran supervised ADMIXTURE using e.g., Armenians as a putative West Asian ancestral populations you would not only include the "West Asian" component, but also the "South European" and "Southwest Asian" components in a mix that is particular to Armenians.<br /><br />The Indian_D sample has 25.2% West Asian and 6% North European admixture.<br /><br />http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2011/05/how-to-create-zombies-from-admixture.html<br /><br />With respect to East Eurasian admixture, I see 0% of haplogroup Q,N,O,C in Kalash, so I am not surprised that they have 0% such admixture in my analysis; it's possible that the "East Eurasian" in the HPA may be an alias for Paleoindian (ASI) ancestry.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-47688581193146227022011-05-30T11:12:23.975+03:002011-05-30T11:12:23.975+03:00Great work, Dienekes. This is a most interesting e...Great work, Dienekes. This is a most interesting exercise.<br /><br />Strangely enough, Zack, who was among the first to successfully break down the ancestral components of the Kalash over at HAP without the Kalash forming their own distinct cluster as usual, had significantly different results for them-<br />*South Asian - 60%%<br />*European - 22<br />*South West Asian - 11%<br />*East Asian - 3%<br />*American - 2%<br />*Siberian - 1%<br />*Papuan - 1%<br /><br />Do note that the South Asian component here is not quite like the South Asian component we see in regular ADMIXTURE runs, which is generally a blend between Reich et al's Ancestral North Indian and Ancestral South Indian. It is usually slightly more ASI than ANI for most individuals, which might explain it's drag towards Oceanian populations on low levels of K. In this case, especially for the Kalash, it seems to be that the South Asian component is entirely specific to ANI (attested by the absence of the "Onge" component among the Kalash). <br /><br />Somehow, there seems to be little correlation between Zack's K=11 breakdown and these Zombie K=10 results. Zack's breakdown revealed a 6% East Eurasian + 1% Papuan for the Kalash, so would this correlate to a sliver of the 43.5% South Asian in your own breakdown? <br /><br />I always thought that the less SEA a group was, the less spurious the East Asian components were, since SEA is the East Eurasian component most affiliated with ASI. The Kalash had substantial Northern European admixture in the former, whereas it's only 0.5% in the Zombie K=10 exercise. In fact, all Indo-European groups, including Dravidian-speaking upper castes carried European and SW Asian at a ratio 3:2 in Zack's K=11. I wonder whether the aforementioned groups will also completely lose this mix, which is rather suggestive of what the ancient Indo-Iranians may have been, if tested in the same manner as this K=10 Zombie exercise. <br /><br />It would be great if you carry out the same on Indian_D. That would throw further light on the matter.Vasishtahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16475698920004634252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-76048365594010127432011-05-30T07:00:16.346+03:002011-05-30T07:00:16.346+03:00Excellent!Excellent!pconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.com