tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post8907577081167543234..comments2023-10-16T21:11:28.700+03:00Comments on Dodecad Ancestry Project: Winding down the current submission opportunityDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-5976059097715934312011-02-26T20:38:11.872+02:002011-02-26T20:38:11.872+02:00Dieneke, it would be great if you published a list...Dieneke, it would be great if you published a list of project participants sorted by ID number giving information about their ethnic backgrounds as Zack does in his project. That would be much more convenient than searching through the ancestry thread.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-65117293272807189692011-02-26T11:43:18.259+02:002011-02-26T11:43:18.259+02:00I'm not particularly interested in chasing aft...<i>I'm not particularly interested in chasing after mini segments of DNA as that is more of genealogical than anthropological interest.</i><br /><br />I certainly don't think they are more of genealogical than anthropological interest; they are much more to do with relationships between populations thus with anthropology.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-83075449515687363692011-02-23T10:42:26.863+02:002011-02-23T10:42:26.863+02:00In the above quote David speaks of IBS as a much b...In the above quote David speaks of IBS as a much better alternative to Fst and at the end he adds: "but they also work very well for populations", so he thinks IBS is also useful - very useful - for between-population comparisons and not just for between-individual comparisons.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-73504466721064719052011-02-23T10:02:49.040+02:002011-02-23T10:02:49.040+02:00These are David's words:
"But I don'...<i>These are David's words:<br /><br />"But I don't think Fst is very reliable, because it's useless for individuals and even for small samples (with the error margin sometimes bigger than the actual Fst scores). Genome-wide IBS similarity and distance scores are much better, especially for individuals vs. individuals, but they also work very well for populations."</i><br /><br />Not sure what you are arguing about, as I already told you that Fst is only useful for between-population comparisons.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-33529273853918730642011-02-23T00:32:33.508+02:002011-02-23T00:32:33.508+02:00There are no "true genetic distances" as...<i>There are no "true genetic distances" as genetic distances are man-made constructs.</i><br /><br />By the same logic, races too should be man-made constructs; and you would never treat race as an arbitrary concept, would you?<br /><br /><i>The two are also not directly comaprable, as IBS is defined for pairs of individuals, while Fst for pairs of populations.</i><br /><br />These are David's words:<br /><br />"But I don't think Fst is very reliable, because it's useless for individuals and even for small samples (with the error margin sometimes bigger than the actual Fst scores). Genome-wide IBS similarity and distance scores are much better, especially for individuals vs. individuals, but they also work very well for populations."<br /><br />Regarding ASD, he says these:<br /><br />"These tools <b>[onur:</b> he means all genetic analysis tools, including the ones like PCA and ADMIXTURE and not just the ones for directly measuring genetic distance<b>]</b> are all good, if the analyses is designed in a robust manner and interpreted correctly. But Fst is the weakest of them all. Also, it probably won't be used for much longer in studies, with Allele Sharing Distance (ASD) now preferred by most people who know their stuff."Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-57023727056809380522011-02-22T19:11:30.242+02:002011-02-22T19:11:30.242+02:00The reason why I especially asked about ASD and IB...<i>The reason why I especially asked about ASD and IBS is that according to David they are both much more accurate than Fst in giving information about true genetic distances.</i><br /><br />There are no "true genetic distances" as genetic distances are man-made constructs. The two are also not directly comaprable, as IBS is defined for pairs of individuals, while Fst for pairs of populations.Dodecad Projecthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10447516703222698752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-60198041777065951072011-02-22T18:10:34.288+02:002011-02-22T18:10:34.288+02:00The reason why I especially asked about ASD and IB...The reason why I especially asked about ASD and IBS is that according to David they are both much more accurate than Fst in giving information about true genetic distances.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-91000328406974318132011-02-22T17:49:40.099+02:002011-02-22T17:49:40.099+02:00Dieneke, will you upgrade to ADMIXTURE version 1.1...<i>Dieneke, will you upgrade to ADMIXTURE version 1.1</i><br /><br />Maybe<br /><br /><i><br /> and exclude outliers from the reference datasets as Zack of the Harappa Ancestry Project did?<br /></i><br /><br />The reference datasets are what they are; samples may be excluded for particular purposes in which case it is stated.<br /><br /><i> Also will you make IBS and ASD genetic distance analyses in addition to Fst and do study on phased data like David of the Eurogenes Genetic Ancestry Project?</i><br /><br />I'm not particularly interested in chasing after mini segments of DNA as that is more of genealogical than anthropological interest.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-70767800123060125072011-02-22T16:56:37.966+02:002011-02-22T16:56:37.966+02:00Dieneke, will you upgrade to ADMIXTURE version 1.1...Dieneke, will you upgrade to ADMIXTURE version 1.1 and exclude outliers from the reference datasets as Zack of the Harappa Ancestry Project did? Also will you make IBS and ASD genetic distance analyses in addition to Fst and do study on phased data like David of the Eurogenes Genetic Ancestry Project?Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.com