tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post2952912629604507029..comments2023-10-16T21:11:28.700+03:00Comments on Dodecad Ancestry Project: 'euro7' calculatorDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-63250766919877246452013-12-06T21:32:19.382+02:002013-12-06T21:32:19.382+02:00Why you made the model with North Western more clo...Why you made the model with North Western more closed to North Eastern and not to South Western?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18287136662226249940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-54699609805526449462012-05-01T04:00:07.688+03:002012-05-01T04:00:07.688+03:00I'm getting strange results with the calculato...I'm getting strange results with the calculator. Could it be that the values for Southeastern and Southwestern are mixed up?aspromavrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05416539355662136692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-17406971378403007612011-12-07T12:15:05.038+02:002011-12-07T12:15:05.038+02:00Hi, I'm from Spain and so are my four grandpar...Hi, I'm from Spain and so are my four grandparents but I've a percentage that doesn't fit with the data in the spreadsheet. I've been checking but I can't find any European country with roughly similar percentages to mine.<br /><br />These are the results:<br /> ----------------------------<br /> <br /> 2.90% East_European <br /> 39.66% West_European <br /> 37.35% Mediterranean <br /> 0.58% Neo_African <br /> 10.35% West_Asian <br /> 0.72% South_Asian <br /> 0.00% Northeast_Asian <br /> 0.00% Southeast_Asian <br /> 0.31% East_African <br /> 4.09% Southwest_Asian <br /> 4.03% Northwest_African <br /> 0.00% Palaeo_African <br /><br />-------------<br /><br /> <br /> 64.48% Atlantic-Baltic <br /> 34.46% Near-East <br /> 0.01% Far-East <br /> 1.05% Africa <br /><br />--------------------<br /> 5.37% Caucasus <br /> 39.31% Northwestern <br /> 5.47% Northeastern <br /> 21.23% Southeastern <br /> 1.27% African <br /> 0.00% Far_Asian <br /> 27.35% Southwestern <br /><br />-----------------<br />I must be a mix of something but I'm not aware of any ancestors from abroad. Is this sort of Southeastern European, Near East and West Asian component rare in Spain?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-11471341597458427132011-10-19T21:24:49.518+03:002011-10-19T21:24:49.518+03:00BTW Dienekes, is the 24th of October the big day?
...<i>BTW Dienekes, is the 24th of October the big day?</i><br /><br />I have something in the works, whether it'll be ready for the 24th remains to be seen.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-11940160380737540692011-10-19T20:32:51.874+03:002011-10-19T20:32:51.874+03:00BTW Dienekes, is the 24th of October the big day?BTW Dienekes, is the 24th of October the big day?Eduardo Pintohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09199139277049366469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-33334639343316794702011-10-19T18:47:54.484+03:002011-10-19T18:47:54.484+03:00LOL
K=10 showed Northern Euros more similar to ea...LOL<br /><br />K=10 showed Northern Euros more similar to each other than K=12 or the recent calculator.<br /><br />¿How can it be much reliable if the "identical" condition is more evident there than elsewhere? I don't see the point, sorry.Acidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09528331665202849473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-77079207179774299652011-10-19T17:52:34.285+03:002011-10-19T17:52:34.285+03:00Or do you really believe that Russians and Irish a...<i>Or do you really believe that Russians and Irish are identical?</i><br /><br />Who said they were?Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-44715906518433187142011-10-19T17:31:09.608+03:002011-10-19T17:31:09.608+03:00"I don't plan to release a calculator bas..."I don't plan to release a calculator based on K=10 analysis". <br /><br />It's a pity because <a href="http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/04/genetic-structure-of-west-eurasians.html" rel="nofollow">it is</a> a much reliable reference for the true structure of Europeans. Or do you really believe that Russians and Irish are identical?Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-54055043156070905072011-10-19T09:41:18.658+03:002011-10-19T09:41:18.658+03:00I don't plan to release a calculator based on ...I don't plan to release a calculator based on K=10 analysis.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-62157589443020938862011-10-19T07:28:14.576+03:002011-10-19T07:28:14.576+03:00Hi, Dienekes. You don't seem to have released ...Hi, Dienekes. You don't seem to have released a calculator in a while. I was wondering whether you could take this opportunity to release a calculator based on your initial K=10 Dodecad analysis some time.Vasishtahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16475698920004634252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-85273919880467731652011-10-12T07:51:53.581+03:002011-10-12T07:51:53.581+03:00Dienekes, can you place the Euro7 population avera...Dienekes, can you place the Euro7 population averages (or any of the others weac, etc.) into Oracle so that we may recompute national and binational matches and distances based on these components?Auditor George Danoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15451291978096556616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-4758746103039698962011-10-09T22:37:52.365+03:002011-10-09T22:37:52.365+03:00Ah ha! No, I was not using version 2.1, though I a...Ah ha! No, I was not using version 2.1, though I actually have it, I'd forgotten to throw out the old folder.Inextrinsiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11548873407881639754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-4008216463549247812011-10-09T11:09:42.868+03:002011-10-09T11:09:42.868+03:00@Inextrinsia
1. Were you able to run dv3 correctl...@Inextrinsia<br /><br />1. Were you able to run dv3 correctly?<br />2. Are you using version 2.1?Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-18398346880878140972011-10-09T06:58:53.557+03:002011-10-09T06:58:53.557+03:00It says,
At line 142 of file DIYDodecad.f90 (Unit...It says,<br /><br />At line 142 of file DIYDodecad.f90 (Unit 50 "genotype.txt")<br />Traceback: not available, compile with -ftrace=frame or -ftrace=full<br />Fortran runtime error: End of fileInextrinsiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11548873407881639754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-79653965142813864472011-10-07T13:16:11.175+03:002011-10-07T13:16:11.175+03:00Luis, with this paucity of data we can't say a...Luis, with this paucity of data we can't say anything about the nature of the genetic relationship between South French and Basques. We need more research.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-10973229157207876392011-10-07T01:44:20.877+03:002011-10-07T01:44:20.877+03:00Almost nothing: a 2004 mtDNA study of a handful of...Almost nothing: <a href="http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v12/n4/pdf/5201145a.pdf" rel="nofollow">a 2004 mtDNA study</a> of a handful of regions (Brittany, Normandy, Northeast, Poitou-Limousin and Provence) is the closest I know of. <br /><br />Also Heraus echoed <a href="http://anthrofrance.blogspot.com/2009/05/marqueurs-genetiques-et-provinces.html" rel="nofollow">in the first post of his blog Anthrofrance</a> some unpublished (conference) HLA differences (which would seem to vindicate the importance of Basques and Corsicans as an important reference). If we are to judge by phenotype, which Heraus has explored a lot in these last years, there's something more than just affinity to either Basques, Iberians or Central-NW Europeans: there is a host of French-specific variability, specially towards the South (so more like Occitan maybe). <br /><br />Finally in the Myres 2010 R1b paper (which I discussed <a href="http://leherensuge.blogspot.com/2010/08/r1b1b2a1-is-almost-unique-of-west.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>), some Occitan and French locations were included and the Occitans specially appear to have high levels of basal diversity in R1b-L11 and specially S116 ("Southern haplogroup" probably radiating from around the Pyrenees). <br /><br />So I have a lot of reasons to be intrigued about "French" and specially "South French" (Occitan, Gascon...) genetics by regions. But the data we have is extremely limited, almost oblique.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-42535111020742616422011-10-06T23:57:23.779+03:002011-10-06T23:57:23.779+03:00I do not have much evidence because we lack studie...<i>I do not have much evidence because we lack studies on the Hexagon, the second largest state of Europe and a region with high population levels since antiquity (and the Paleolithic for all we know), which must hold huge genetic diversity and be crucial in understanding European genetics.<br /><br />I know that Lyon French formed a distinct cluster in a previous analysis by Dienekes (maybe they are also 'inbred'), I know that R1b1a2a1a1b (P312/S116) shows apparent high basal diversity in South France, but otherwise I know too little because the country have been studied very patchily. Just including a 'French' sample from who-knows-where is not useful, France should be sampled and researched throughfully if we are to unveil European genetics, specially those of Western Europe.<br /><br />Iberia also needs some extra attention but the case of France is truly painful.</i><br /><br /><i>I do not have much evidence because we lack studies on the Hexagon, the second largest state of Europe and a region with high population levels since antiquity (and the Paleolithic for all we know), which must hold huge genetic diversity and be crucial in understanding European genetics.<br /><br />I know that Lyon French formed a distinct cluster in a previous analysis by Dienekes (maybe they are also 'inbred'), I know that R1b1a2a1a1b (P312/S116) shows apparent high basal diversity in South France, but otherwise I know too little because the country have been studied very patchily. Just including a 'French' sample from who-knows-where is not useful, France should be sampled and researched throughfully if we are to unveil European genetics, specially those of Western Europe.<br /><br />Iberia also needs some extra attention but the case of France is truly painful.</i><br /><br />Are there any region-based genetic studies on France you know?Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-31972209186437820902011-10-06T17:01:06.291+03:002011-10-06T17:01:06.291+03:00@Eduardo: I fail to see how that article justifies...@Eduardo: I fail to see how that article justifies anything. It's just Polako's opinion and, like Dienekes, he has a non-Western point of view and focus. <br /><br />@Onur: I do not have much evidence because we lack studies on the Hexagon, the second largest state of Europe and a region with high population levels since antiquity (and the Paleolithic for all we know), which must hold huge genetic diversity and be crucial in understanding European genetics. <br /><br />I know that Lyon French formed a distinct cluster in a previous analysis by Dienekes (maybe they are also 'inbred'), I know that R1b1a2a1a1b (P312/S116) shows apparent high basal diversity in South France, but otherwise I know too little because the country have been studied very patchily. Just including a 'French' sample from who-knows-where is not useful, France should be sampled and researched throughfully if we are to unveil European genetics, specially those of Western Europe. <br /><br />Iberia also needs some extra attention but the case of France is truly painful.<br /><br />@Acid:<br /><br />In autosomal studies very specially, having diverse informative viewpoints is important because such wealth of information can barely be discerned in any single statistical study or angle. Different ones should be combined in order to gain some depth of understanding. <br /><br />What I mean is that even if this approach can be informative, is only one of several possible approaches, all of which have something to say.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-63547775857384952382011-10-05T21:17:29.810+03:002011-10-05T21:17:29.810+03:00There was another K=12 using Sardinian and Basque ...There was another K=12 using Sardinian and Basque components, but It wasn't possible for me to participate (I was late). I am curious about my scores in both clusters, but I think Dienekes' wants to find the composition of populations, rather than remark their known isolation or see how they connect with other people.<br /><br />If I understood well, for you a Basque or Sardinian cluster are necessary. Well, perhaps not. It's possible that both clusters include the influences detected by the other analysis, as for example the K=12 v3 or the latest calculator (wich in fact, would be more accurate using a K=12 "style" including Southwestern, Southeastern, etc.)<br /><br />I don't see why not, although I'd like to see the other results as I said.Acidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09528331665202849473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-38536673992404586172011-10-05T21:07:56.716+03:002011-10-05T21:07:56.716+03:00Luis, do you have evidence that South French are d...Luis, do you have evidence that South French are distinct in the European context and form a cluster together with Basques?Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-2917390105630473812011-10-05T20:45:00.000+03:002011-10-05T20:45:00.000+03:00Maju, I think you should read this article careful...Maju, I think you should read this article carefully, to understand Dienekes reasons to exclude Basques and Sardinians from the initial run<br /><br />http://bga101.blogspot.com/2011/05/french-basques-and-sardinians-are.htmlEduardo Pintohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09199139277049366469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-79324864751190163322011-10-05T16:07:11.193+03:002011-10-05T16:07:11.193+03:00I do not have access to the paper, so I can't ...I do not have access to the paper, so I can't tell how accurate is the claim professed. I'm not surprised that Sardinians are isolated but I am surprised that it's claimed that Basques are so extremely isolated, living as we live open to the trade (and pilgrimage) routes of Western Europe.<br /><br />So:<br /><br />1) I'd like to see the paper in detail before I can issue judgment.<br /><br />2) I suspect that less common "immigrant" alleles (which did not reach Basques as much as other populations) are distorting the picture. <br /><br />However I agree that Basques (and Sardinians) are distinct populations in the context of Europe (but Basques together with some neighbors, specially 'South French' and Sardinians together with Corsicans and to some extent mainland Italians maybe) and that's a reason I feel frustrating that their distinctiveness is hidden in most Dienekes' Dodecad analysis. I think this does not add (as he claims) but detracts in fact from truthful info and confuses people like Acid who can't really know what's their exact relation (if any) with Basques or Sardinians. <br /><br />I understand that from the viewpoint of Greece it looks "less important" but from the viewpoint of Catalonia, France, Italy, Britain... it should be at least as important as any other component. <br /><br />By choosing a K level of his preference (and by removing important "border populations" like North Africans or most West Asians), Dienekes is making an arbitrary and at least questionable choice. An unnecessary choice (several analysis could be produced in parallel) I lament, because if this may be somewhat informative, it could be of much greater interest if all the relevant info was offered instead.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-223129829255099492011-10-05T01:37:38.597+03:002011-10-05T01:37:38.597+03:00Luis, in the study you quoted very few autosomal m...Luis, in the study you quoted very few autosomal markers were examined, while in the study Dienekes quoted <b>over 30 000 autosomal markers</b> were examined.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-21555159348966273612011-10-04T22:28:10.415+03:002011-10-04T22:28:10.415+03:00Just a quick reference: Young et al. 2011, which d...Just a quick reference: <a href="http://dx.crossref.org/10.3325%2Fcmj.2011.52.372" rel="nofollow">Young et al. 2011</a>, which deals with Basque autosomal genetics precisely. <br /><br />While the authors state in the intro that "Heterozygosity levels in the Basque provinces were on the low end of the European distribution (0.805-0.812)", this is only barely correct. <br /><br />When you look at <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3118713/table/T4/" rel="nofollow">table 4</a> it happens that the difference is very small and could be easily removed excluding the sample from Araba which totally tilts the average. <br /><br />In any case Basque average diversity is 809 (810.3 after removing Araba), while the average within-populations gene diversity (H sub-T)among all samples is 807, which is lower. While there are regions (notably Scotland, very odd, Andalusia, Austria, Hungary, Turkey) that are quite higher than the Basque diversity average, there are others (Morocco, Catalonia, Murcia, Georgia, Tuscany, Bosnia) that are under the Basque diversity levels. <br /><br />It is therefore unfair and an error to make the claims you do, specially considering that Basque genetic samples have often been subject of extremely stringent "pedigree" conditions (not applied elsewhere) that necessarily reduce apparent genetic artificially.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6533996127304587865.post-66213818879584850412011-10-04T19:20:35.652+03:002011-10-04T19:20:35.652+03:00It is strange that Luis still questions the homoge...It is strange that Luis still questions the homogeneity and inbredness of Basques compared to the overwhelming majority of other European populations after all those studies.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.com